David Kirkpatrick

April 24, 2009

Right v. wrong

Filed under: Politics — Tags: , , , , — David Kirkpatrick @ 6:33 pm

These are the actual sides in the current discussion on torture— particularly the waterboarding technique which is defined as torture by every legal authority aside from the discredited memos created by the Bush 43 regime’s OLC.

The coda to the linked post:

… this is a defining moment for America. This is not now and never has been a question of right versus left. It is right vs wrong. It is a bright line which the black-and-white crowd has suddenly decided is oh-so-gray. But we have their testimony now. And history has it for ever.


  1. This is a time in history where Mr. Obama clearly does not realize that the radicals/terrrorist have been at war with us for over 20 years. If waterboarding can gain us the information needed to keep us safe. I say right on. We are going to be hit again it is just a question of when. Pres. Bush was only in office 265 days before 911 hit. This man brought the nation together my greatest fear is that Obama will not be able to do that.

    Comment by Debra — April 24, 2009 @ 6:56 pm

  2. This is a time in history when Obama put greater emphasis on the physical comfort of the enemy than on American lives. The interrogation tactics used on KSM saved the people of Los Angeles from an attack similar to the one that hit New York.

    Comment by dcbarton — April 24, 2009 @ 7:01 pm

  3. dcbarton — don’t rely on talking points and actually read the released documents. The LA Tower attack plan was discovered through interrogation before KSM was tortured.

    The question here is not whether to interrogate captured terrorists. The question is whether the U.S. ought to become one of the nations of the world that tortures.

    To this point there has been zero proof — and a lot of insiders going on record stating — the torture program created nothing but bad leads and false information.

    Sadly, that may be the actual reason for the torture program. The false information gained via torture that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 was used to justify invading Iraq.

    Comment by davidkirkpatrick — April 24, 2009 @ 7:15 pm

  4. Actually, I don’t use talking points, those are the domain of the Democrats.
    KSM didn’t give his information because he liked us, he gave it because we used minor force to convince him to give it to us.
    We did get alot of information from what the left calls torture, but that is a far cry from what they have done to the people they have captured, unless you have any specifics of prisoners that we decapitated.
    “The false information gained via torture that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 was used to justify invading Iraq.”
    Wrong again. There was a list of 22 reasons for going into Iraq, none consisted of Iraq’s involvement with the 9/11 attack. The reasons did include Saddam’s paying money to families of terrorists that wore bomb vests to kill innocent Israelis. They included Saddam firing at US fighter planes over the no-fly zone. They also included his lack of compliance with the UN cease fire when he agreed to show his WMD so it could be disposed of. There were claims that the 9/11 hijackers had been meeting with Intelligence agents from Iraq, but those were disproved just days after 9/11.

    Comment by dcbarton — April 24, 2009 @ 10:59 pm

    • dcbarton — I appreciate your comments. “Talking points” are not the domain
      of any party, viewpoint or opinion. Everyone uses talking points at some
      point. I take it from your opening line you do think this issue is one of
      right v. left instead of right v. wrong.

      I think this issue is one of rule of law and whether the President of the
      United States is above the law.

      The very essence of being an American is that everyone is held equal under
      the law. The process is dirty and imperfect, but if the president is allowed
      to act as an absolute monarch the United States as we know it will be gone
      in practice and philosophy.

      If one attack on New York City was all it took to wreck the ideals of the
      United States of America, then our ideals were either worthless or so rotten
      as ready to implode. If either of those sorry options is the truth then the
      islamic fools have won. They gambled our strong face and noble ideals were a
      farce and they were proven correct.

      I think that is incorrect. I think an administration — for whatever reason:
      panic, fear, cynicism, etc. — changed American ideals in secret and
      fundamentally damaged our nation at its legal core. The interrogation
      methods we admittedly undertook are torture under United States and
      international law. Is the president to be held above the law for any reason
      deemed by the White House? Can the executive branch go beyond the law behind
      doors closed to the judicial and legislative branches? I don’t think so, and
      I hope any American who understands what is stake agrees with me.

      This isn’t left/right. This isn’t partisan bickering. This is a debate on
      who we are as a nation of laws, and more importantly, as a people.

      Comment by davidkirkpatrick — April 25, 2009 @ 12:21 am

  5. I actually think this issue is one of survival. The “right or wrong” and the legality of the issue were debated by the President and Congress, both decided it was legal, until the Democrats decided they could make political hay from it. It is easy to say torture is wrong, but what about the murder of our fellow Americans? Isn’t that wrong, too? If so, how do you prevent it unless you are willing to do what is needed to get the information to protect them? If not, maybe you are suggesting that that we all just lay down and die? They want us dead, they aren’t going to tell us what we need to know because they like us, we need to get that information, there is only two ways, get it or die.

    Comment by dcbarton — April 25, 2009 @ 3:31 am

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